Unknown

Welcome back to The stay broke Podcast, the show not only for small businesses but also for the people who help them grow. Today we're joined by Mayor Vivian Jones of Wake Forest, North Carolina, as a former business owner. It is no surprise her level of involvement and partnership with Wake Forest downtown Inc., the Wake Forest Chamber of Commerce, and launch Wake Forest.

Unknown

We appreciate her taking the time to sit down with me today. Even as Election Day approaches. If reelected mayor Jones will enter her seventh consecutive term. Though we are not a political channel, there is still plenty to discuss in relationship to small businesses in Wake Forest. Mayor Vivian. Welcome to the Stay broke Podcast. Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.

Unknown

We appreciate you taking the time. I know you're busy right now. One thing I just wanted to start with is, like, as I started to look into you and before that, like, how approachable you are and how accessible you are. I really appreciate that. And I'm sure a lot of the people in the community do, too.

Unknown

Every event that I've been to downtown, pretty much every meeting I've been to. You always make an appearance in some form or another. And, I actually had to look further to try and find your email, because your phone number is the first thing to pop up. So, like, I, I really appreciate your accessibility. Thank you. Thank you.

Unknown

So I guess I would start with just kind of who you are a little bit about your background, where you're from. Okay. Anything that you well, share with us about that. I grew up in North Carolina and, Randolph County, which is over in the middle of the state, if you're not familiar with that. And but, I Asheboro is in Randolph County, so that's the location, and I, but I grew up out in the country in the northern end of the, of the county, and, just my father was a, commercial flooring contractor.

Unknown

And he actually did all the floors in Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem when the college moved to Winston-Salem, which is kind of ironic that then I become the mayor of Wake Forest. But, anyway, we had, you know, a big garden, and we raised most of our food. And my mama, my mama was a great gardener, and and so we picked beans and froze them and canned.

Unknown

Don't tell that kind of stuff. So then when I graduated from high school, I went to, Women’s College, which is now UNCG. Oh, but back in the day, women can go to you and say, Carolina at Chapel Hill. Until they were juniors. So. So Carolina had a woman's college in Greensboro, and women would go there for a couple of years and then transfer.

Unknown

But I went there and I took a course that they had at that time, which was a one year secretarial course. And when I got out of that finished that, I got married shortly thereafter. And, another fun, fun fact for me, and an interesting fact is, is my first job when I finished the course was in Greensboro for a law firm, Smith, mower, Smith Shale and Hunter.

Unknown

The. They had a woman who was going out on maternity leave, and so I took her job for a few months while she was on maternity leave. And the guy that I worked for was Jim XM, who later became chief justice of the North Carolina Supreme Court. Oh, wow. But anyway, I got married and we moved to, different states and towns.

Unknown

We lived in Saint Louis for a while and just outside of Toledo for a while. Williamsburg, Virginia and Orlando, Florida, and then came back to North Carolina. And I came to Wake Forest, my, husband came to go to the seminary, and so we moved here. He finished the seminary. Unfortunately, we divorced at that time. And, I stayed in north in Wake Forest because my daughter was in high school at that time.

Unknown

And I thought, well, I'll wait till she graduates and then figure out what I'm going to do. And my sister decided she would she was kind of in a midlife crisis at the second.

Unknown

So, she was a vice president of a bank and Asheboro. So she quit her job and moved to Wake Forest and we started a business as catering and a restaurant, restaurant and a catering business. And, it was kind of crazy. I don't recommend other people do this, but neither one of us had ever worked in a restaurant before.

Unknown

But we like to cook. We like to entertain. So we thought, oh, of course, you know, everybody thinks they can run a restaurant. So we started a restaurant. We were very fortunate because we have a niece who had who had spent quite a few years in Atlanta working for a restaurant company, and she had moved back to North Carolina at that point.

Unknown

So she came and lived with us for about six months and helped us get started. I don't think we would have managed if it hadn't been for her. She taught us how to how to handle everything. So, I mean, you know, I could cook. And so I wasn't worried about the cooking, but it was all the other stuff that we had to do.

Unknown

She. She helped us train our waiters and waitresses and, so, anyway, we had the business for about, we had the restaurant for about ten years, and, and then we closed the restaurant and, had a, like a kitchen shop and we sold a few, you know, kitchen utensils, stuff. But we continued to cook the things that were favorites of our customers, and we would cook them and freeze them.

Unknown

So, you know, we'd we would freeze meatloaf and chicken casseroles and desserts and all that kind of stuff, and people would come and pick them up and take them home. We were the first pick up and take home place in Wake Forest. As you're tired and, so and we continued to cater at that point. But we were very active in downtown at that point.

Unknown

My sister Johnny was, the chair of the Wake Forest Downtown group. It was called the Downtown Revitalization Corporation at that time. But, she was the chair of that at one point. And, but we tried to do everything we could. We wake Forest was starting to grow at that time. This was in the early 90s. And so we were working very hard to try to do what we could to encourage development in downtown.

Unknown

And, so, you know, some things came up and I decided to run a run for the town board. So I was elected as a commissioner and, two years later, the mayor said that he wasn't going to run. And, I ran because I had seen that Wake Forest didn't have the support and the connections from the county and the state that I thought we were going to need as we were beginning to grow.

Unknown

So, I said I was going to run and I was going to build relationships with people in town, but also with county and state leaders. And so that's what I concentrated on my first term. Okay. But when I got elected to the town board at, I was the chief cook.

Unknown

So I didn't have time to cook anymore. So we went close to the restaurant and we closed the business at that point in time. Okay. Where was the restaurant located? It was owned Jones Street, okay, which is right downtown, in an old house. It was actually, and someone had tried a restaurant there before. And so there was a little bit of, of the kitchen kind of thing, there.

Unknown

But, I think they had had a restaurant there for just a few months and had closed it. But but it was an old house that, and, it was kind of an interesting and interesting place. And it has been, it has been turned down. And actually, after we closed our restaurant, the. Okay, the people, we never owned that property, but the people who owned it and get it gave the fire department an opportunity to burn down the house for practice.

Unknown

So the house isn't there anymore. Okay. There weren't too many restaurants at that time in Wake Forest, right? There was no there weren't. And. Yeah. Works there. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Well before it was like where the Where the Forks was downtown by that time also. But, there weren't many restaurants and, and there weren't any really nice restaurants, you know, and, our restaurant was named Jovi's.

Unknown

It was for Johnny. And Vivian Jovi's kitchen and catering. It was so the name of our business and, and it was, I mean, we had white tablecloths and cloth napkins, and so it was it was very nice. It was that fancy, but it was very nice, and it was really kind of the only restaurant like that in town at that time.

Unknown

So. And we would do things like, we would have a big Valentine's dinner every year where it would be a, like a price fixed meal, and you'd have maybe a couple of choices. And, and then we would have a big New Year's Eve dinner, and, and those were very popular. They always we always sold out on those people.

Unknown

People came and bring friends and so forth. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. We had a good time. I'll never forget one night. And we we always made it. We said we were not going to be one of those places where they sing Happy Birthday to.

Unknown

And so a couple of friends of ours were there, two couples one night, and it was his, Hey, he said hey, he thought that the cook should always come out and speak to people and, you know, sing songs and sing Happy birthday and that kind of thing. So. So he had been giving me a hard time. So one night when they were there, I went out and I sang I'm a Little Teapot Show.

Unknown

And still, you know, here is my my handle. Here is my sweater. They still talk about that. We had a great time. What was the idea of getting into the restaurants? Just like cooking? Or was there a need or. Well, we we just wanted to do some kind of business and, and, you know, so we were thinking, well, you know, what can we do?

Unknown

What kind of business can we do? And, and we decided since since we could cook and, and my mother was a wonderful cook and she, she taught me and and my sister and so, you know, and like I say, we like to entertain. So we thought that would be a good thing to do. It's a very common story we talk about.

Unknown

We've been talking about restaurants a bit on the general just because, you know, they have a high failure rate. Yes. And I think that's a big part of the reason why people are like, well, I can cook. Yes. And everybody needs to eat. Exactly. It should work. But then there's a whole business to it that you need to understand slow with low margins and everything else.

Unknown

Absolutely, absolutely. No, it's it's a lot more complicated than it's saying, you know, unfortunately. And I tell you, we were not a big success, but we did pay our bills, we pay our bills. And, and we were able to, you know, eat.

Unknown

In the restaurant industry, that's a big success. Yeah. And if you can pay your bills, that's okay. Yeah, yeah, I worked in the restaurant industry. I grew up, in restaurants and then eventually became, head chef in an Italian restaurant in Pittsburgh and just grew up around it. But by the time I got through that experience, I was like, I don't this is not what I wanted to.

Unknown

Well, you know, we had some we had some really wonderful experiences and, and, had some great people that worked with us and, but one of my favorite stories and, if this is too much for you. Oh, that's great. One of my favorite stories was we had a man who worked with us. Spencer. He started actually started out as a dishwasher.

Unknown

And then, I started using him to help me cook, and, and then we would cater lunches for businesses sometimes, you know, and, we had one, company that that called on us quite frequently to, to cater. And so Spencer would take the lunches to the, to the place and, and serve, serve them. And I mean, we didn't have big things.

Unknown

Right. 50 it would be the biggest, probably most like 20 people maybe, you know, so he would take this stuff and serve it. And one one day he took it to this company that we went to a lot, lots of times. And it was, in the fall getting close to Thanksgiving. And we had fixed a chicken casserole and some other stuff, but we had cranberry salad, which my grandmother made the best cranberry salad.

Unknown

So we still make that. And, and so, the president of this company who had come from out of town to, to be there for this meeting. And so he was there. So they were getting lunch and he came and he didn't get any cranberry salad. And Spencer said, you have to have some, some of Miss Vivian's cranberry sauce and, and the gas.

Unknown

Oh yeah. Oh thank God. Oh. So he says, you have to have some. It's it's a requirement. So. So he did he took some and, and he came back and got six.

Unknown

So I always tell you that Spencer was Spencer was a good guy. Running a small business. Do you think, that helped kind of shape your direction? And I guess going into the board of commissioners that give you a different perspective, or, like, how did that kind of shape the direction that you thought the town needed to go?

Unknown

Well, I think it did, make me realize that, the, the, the town needed to do more support for businesses. I was always, one of the things that, that I thought about when I became, a commissioner and then later mayor, when we had our business and we would go to events in town, that the chamber events or the ones at downtown, put together.

Unknown

Very seldom did you see the commissioner or the mayor there, just didn't feel like they supported the businesses. And, the, the. So, when, when I got on the board, I said, no, I'm going, I'm going to do that because I'm going to be there. I'm going to show up. Yeah. You know, if if I'm there and somebody needs something, then they'll, they'll feel more comfortable talking with me then rather than calling me and coming to see me on a special thing, you know, just talk to me.

Unknown

I'm there, you know? And so I do think that that that made a big difference. In, in my, my approach to it. I just want to, in politics, do you have is there any similarities between the mindset of being an entrepreneur and being in politics? Well, you know, I hadn't thought about that, but there probably is.

Unknown

It's. Yeah. Because, you know, you have to make your own way. Whatever. Yeah. So you, you find people that you admire that have succeeded and you try to emulate them to some extent. And I think business people do that. So I think, yeah, you're you're right. And then the networking, of course. Absolutely. You mentioned absolutely interesting.

Unknown

Yeah. I never really thought about that either. Make sense? So I guess you got to explain what the Board of Commissioners is and kind of their duties and what the mayor's duties are as well. Right, sure. Well, the, you know, we, we operate under, what is called a mayor council. I mean, the manager council form of government, there's a mayor council and there's a manager council, and.

Unknown

And what that means is, is that the council adopts policy, and then we hire a manager who carries out that policy, who actually runs the town? The manager hires the employees. He's he's responsible for making sure that the employees are are hired and are doing the job that he must that that the board won't. Stan. All right. So the board adopts the policy now in Wake Forest.

Unknown

This is isn't true in all towns, but a lot of towns. The mayor does not vote. So,

Unknown

The the charter of the town says that the the bear, runs the town board meetings. The mayor can appoint committees.

Unknown

And the mayor, does not vote unless there's a tie, which doesn't happen very often because we have five commissioners. And but the, the the thing that I've always held on to the most is it says the mayor, is to stay apprized of all the business of the town.

Unknown

And so, you know, I try to understand what's going on in the government of the town. And I can certainly influence that by, conversation and, and encouragement of the board and the manager and that kind of thing. So I feel like I've done a lot of that kind of thing over the time. But it's also, I feel it's very important to, to know what's going on in the community.

Unknown

And so I, you know, I've had people say, why don't you go to everything, you know, because I want to stay apprized of the business of the town. And I think it's important to to do that. So, that's kind of that's kind of what we do. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people don't understand what different elected officials do.

Unknown

Yeah. And, it's important to know one for like, who to approach whenever you need help, figure something out. Right. Or even who to blame. And point the blame in the right direction. Right. That's just right. People get carried away and start pointing fingers. Yes. Well, and I think it's very, you know, I feel I feel like I have to be very supportive of the, of the board and, I, we, I was talking to somebody about that the other day, and.

Unknown

I went to the, School of Government. The North Carolina School of Government has a, class for newly elected mayors. And so, when you're and and they, you know, give you some guidance on what you should do and that kind of thing. And so, one of the things that they said, which I'm not sure a lot of mayors follow this, but one of the things I said is if you don't vote, you really shouldn't, make a big presentation of what your opinion is.

Unknown

If you'll notice, if you've ever looked at our board meetings, there are times when I say, well, I think this I'll make a statement or two. But I don't make a big presentation about what I think the board should how I think the board should vote because of what I learned at that school. And they say that if you if there's something that you feel very passionate about, that you want to make a big speech about, they said you should give, give your gavel to the mayor pro tem, and you should go around and speak to the board as a citizen of the town because you don't vote.

Unknown

So you're a citizen when you're making those decisions, those comments, you know, and so I have tried to to follow that. And, And I've only done that one time, but if, if the board makes a decision that I don't really agree with, I support the board. Yeah. Because it's their it's their job to make that decision.

Unknown

And if the majority of them have voted for that, then I support what they have done because they've done what they think is best for the town. I mean, that's that's leadership. I know that's the lesson that, I was a youth minister, for years, and that's something that I tried to get my youth that were on different committees and stuff to understand.

Unknown

And like, I can remember one specific instance where, the church was making a vote or having a vote for a big financial commitment, and I didn't agree with it. And so I voted against it, but then felt necessary to explain to the kids why, you know, why I'm voting against it, but also that, like, no matter how everybody else votes, it's not about me winning or losing.

Unknown

I still need to support them. I'm just letting them know how I feel about it. I think, with everything being so, you know, split it and like just people being so ugly online, it's just it's something to feel like the youth aren't seeing enough of it now. Exactly. You know, that troubles me. It blows me. Yeah. It does.

Unknown

Unknown

There was nothing here. I mean, it was, you know, we had a couple of small grocery stores. We had, store, variety. One of the variety wholesaler stores was here. And, I mean, there was, you know, very little stuff here. And, and actually, after I moved, when I moved here, the, the department store was still here, which you may not even know down there.

Unknown

Unknown

Unknown

And that is that just in the the Wake Forest properties. And that's. Yes. Just and this and the, the town limits. Yes. Now there's a big you know, our, our retail, area is about 231,000 people. All right. That was it actually come in by and or could come in by here and that's expanded. Yes. Because, different annexations and.

Unknown

Oh, yeah. And, you know, all around us, it's growing. Yeah. You know, and of course, part of that is North Raleigh, too. This is considered part of our retail area. Okay. So it's that. Yeah. Well because people well, you know, it's a, it's a mileage kind of thing. Yeah. Sure. You know, it's I consider it. And then I know it's still Wake Forest is still connected in the Raleigh and different ways to right with the utilities and some of the infrastructure.

Unknown

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's something that, you know, we do in our utility company, right. We have to consider Wake Forest part of Raleigh for that kind of stuff. But. Right. You know, for water, water and sewer. Yeah. We we merged with them, a number of years ago. I hope you're enjoying the podcast so far.

Unknown

We're so fortunate to be able to book such amazing guests, but booking a guest every week is proving to be a real challenge. And one of the biggest things keeping us from continuing to book amazing guests is they're waiting to see our channel get a little bit bigger, and for the interviews to get shared a lot more. So please help us out just by giving this a quick share.

Unknown

If you're enjoying the content, give it a like this will help get this story out to a lot more people, and help us to continue to book amazing guests so we can keep bringing this info and entertainment to you and doing the most. We can with this opportunity we have. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the interview. What are some of the changes that you've seen with small businesses and support, in your time there?

Unknown

I know you said in the beginning there wasn't a lot, a lot of support for small business from the town. What's what's evolved? Well, I think we have, and when I say there wasn't a lot of support for the for the businesses, I think it was mainly moral support rather than then the what they needed to do, to, to open a business.

Unknown

But I think that we have, we have a fantastic staff that works for the town, and they really do, try to help as much as they possibly can. And, and I think that the, the government as a whole is more concerned about making sure that businesses are doing or able to do what they need to do now and, and I tell people if, if you if you're having an issue with then you let me know, right?

Unknown

A lot of, a lot of entrepreneurs, I feel like in this area are new entrepreneurs are coming in and trying to start a business for the first time. And they kind of they don't know where to go or how to start. Right. And like a big part of what we're trying to do here is tell people about different resources and, opportunities that are out there.

Unknown

And that's what led us the meeting with, like, Brad Walker from Wake Forest and different things, because there's so many resources out there and it's so easy to get overwhelmed. Now, you know, you search online for anything and the first five results are going to be paid ads. And then you got to weed through that, trying to, you know, get to the meat of it and figure out what opportunities are really here.

Unknown

Where are a couple, like, important, processes here where there are a couple important steps that entrepreneurs should start with if they're just moving to the. Well, first of all, I want to say I've, I'm and I've said this many times and I'm really proud to say Wake Forest is a town of small businesses. You know, we're not ever going to have a big business.

Unknown

And I'm I'm really happy with that. You know, I don't want a big factory coming in, you know, I love having the small businesses and and and we do have a lot of entrepreneurs here. And I think that, you know, having the, co-working spaces downtown has, has helped with that. Yeah. And, and I'm really I was really excited when the rotary started the launch Wake Forest program.

Unknown

I thought that was great. And now we have another program like that, this, called the founders, wake forest founders. Have you heard about that? It was mentioned that I don't know much about it. Well, you know, I don't know a lot of the details there, but I can tell you where to go find out. Okay.

Unknown

It was actually started by, you know, the White Forest Business and Industry partnership and, the loading dock, and, and, maybe riot was involved in that some too, but, but it's the same kind of program that launched wake Forest is. Except it's it's for people who are a little farther along maybe, you know.

Unknown

And, in the business. But, but you can contact Jason Cannon who is the business district partnership, who's the economic development director for the town of Wake Forest. Okay. And that you can contact him. They have a cohort going on right now and they have, it works kind of the same way. They have classes and, they have a guy from Lake Tech who comes in and teaches the classes and, and and then at the end of that, they have a pitch night where they, they select, 2 or 3, 3 or 4 people to come in and do a pitch and they actually give them money.

Unknown

Unknown

Okay. So and particularly for, for, entrepreneurs who actually have had their business for a little while and they need to step it up a little bit. Yeah. You know, and need that extra push and help. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good resource. What's your involvement with, Chamber of Commerce? Well, not a whole lot at this point, except just supporting what they're doing.

Unknown

Okay. You know, I, go to all the things that I can go to the theater and and just support them. And whenever they have a leadership, well, like forest leadership group that they have every year. And, you know, I always go and talk with them and, offer my, my support or help or however I can help them.

Unknown

Yeah, yeah, that's I think, people get and get it misconstrued like what the different resources are for, like what the chamber is and but they do such a great job of like getting, putting themselves out there. Right. And being seen. That's a that's one of the first things that I feel like a lot of business owners go to.

Unknown

Whereas like launch Wake Forest and the founders, like I just found out about, Lance Wake Forest a couple months ago, I never heard of it. And I've been an entrepreneur in the town for, you know, years. Right. And, you know, trying to get those resources out there because what they offer is completely different. And people need to understand that.

Unknown

I feel like a lot of people will sign up for, like, the Chamber of Commerce, for example, and they think that it's just some magic button that you push it. And now everybody in there is going to right and support you and start using your products or your services, and it's just going to fix things. But, well, it's a different cat.

Unknown

It's a different kind of thing. It's, it's important at some point to be a member of the chamber and to network with, with everyone and, and, and because they do support each other, the businesses do support each other, but it's, it's not where you go, in my opinion. It's not where you go to learn how to run your business.

Unknown

Right? You know. Yeah. Generally it has not been. Yeah. And I but I do think that the chamber now, Jim Thompson is now the director of the president of the chamber, and I think that he has talked with Brad Walker at large, Wake Forest. And I think they want to be more involved. Okay. And which I think is a great.

Unknown

Yeah. That's great. It's a great thing. So, I'm glad that that that's that that's happening and. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be a lot easier. Everything's working together a little bit more and helping each other out. And I know that's the direction that they're all heading. And even like the chamber, I know they've had some struggles over the last few years, but, they've had different programs that inside the chamber that weren't necessarily working together.

Unknown

Right. And that could be using and now they're making some changes that are trying to make everything run together. Yeah, I think a bit more I think that I think that they're doing a good job getting things straightened out. Yeah. So yeah, we just, joined back up. That was our the event that we saw you at, last week was the first event that was since we've been back into.

Unknown

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So just, you know, trying to get people to understand that those are the kind of organizations that you get out of it what you put into it. Exactly. And it's like you said, networking. And that's the biggest thing you're going to get out of it is being able to build your network and meet other local entrepreneurs and business owners.

Unknown

Are there any things that you see that maybe Wake Forest is lacking as far as support for business owners or, any major hurdles that you see? I don't really think so. I think we're, we're I think businesses are getting a lot of support, and particularly small small businesses. Yeah. And entrepreneurs, I think are one of the things the chamber is doing is they're, with their mate in the street.

Unknown

They're having the, the young entrepreneur, event at the meet in the street where they have the kids come in that they're doing stuff. And I think that's just great that they're encouraging that kind of thing. And so, at any time that we can, highlight or encourage and, and spotlight, what entrepreneurs should do and I think it's great.

Unknown

And one of the things that, are you familiar with the Wireless Research Center know well that someone you might want to talk with okay, someday to, about, we just celebrate their 15th year here in Wake Forest. But, Jerod Hayes, who is the president of the Wireless Research Center, came to me, about maybe 18 years ago.

Unknown

And, he worked for Sony Ericsson. And when they moved from RTP, he lived in wake Forest and went. But when they moved from RTP and went back to California, he said he didn't want to go. So he he left them and stayed here. And, he got another job. But he had this idea to start a testing facility, a wireless testing facility, because that's what his his expertise was.

Unknown

And, you know, and he was I understood from what I read and, studied about at that point in time, he was like one of the top 20 wireless people in the world at that time. And he had this idea to start a testing facility here in Wake Forest. But he needed help. So he came to me and said, you know, with the town, be willing to help with this.

Unknown

Well, I thought it was a great idea. And what what he wanted to do was have this, I don't know what they call it, but it's this facility that tests wireless devices like your phone and that kind of stuff, because that was just, you know, 18 years ago. That was a big deal. Yeah.

Unknown

And, so anyway, I said, but I thought we should work with him. And so I kept talking it up to the board and to the town manager. And, you know, we talked it out and talked it up, and we I actually introduced him to they and Gerlach, who is the head of, the Golden Lay Foundation at that point in time.

Unknown

And, because I was trying to find a way to get money. Well, the town finally agreed to. We gave him we had some money that had, come to us, way back in the day when, actually when the college moved to the town, you know, kind of, needed help. Yeah. And so some, some businessmen got together and they went out and they found a company, and, and now my mind's gone blank, and I can't think what the name of the company.

Unknown

Well, I said, over on, Capital Boulevard, across from the shopping center. I can't think of what the name of the company was now. But anyway, they brought this manufacturing company here, and,

Unknown

And they, they owned the land. And so then when the manufacturing company left, they this this group of businessmen still owned that land and so forth. So they sold that land and they gave the town the money. Okay. Because, the town had originally helped start it, you know, so they gave the town the money. So we set that money aside as an economic development money.

Unknown

Okay. So we had this a little bit of money. So we gave, Jerry, $300,000 and a grant for $300,000. The Golden Lay Foundation, actually, gave him a grant and it was about $900,000. Don't know, because this chamber that they had to buy, was very expensive. And so, anyway, so they bought this chamber, installed it here in Wake Forest.

Unknown

There were only three chambers of this capacity in the world, and one of them was in Lake Forest. And so he he set up his business in a way that was, it was a nonprofit. Okay. Because he realized that, that entrepreneurs didn't have the money.

Unknown

But the thing that for most of the testing was being done at universities or research centers, and if they helped somebody with the testing, then they would take some of the AP.

Unknown

And he didn't want to do that. Yeah. And so, so anyway, they have helped about 40 businesses get to really get started or, and, and it's probably more than that. But like 40 in the this area. Yeah. You know get started that tech companies that needed some help like that. So so that hey somebody you need to talk to us.

Unknown

You would you would enjoy hearing his story. Yeah. And I'll give you the contact information. Okay? Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. And there's so many things like that around here. Yeah, we're there's there's so much going on and, you know, and the wireless research center started a program called riot, which you may have heard of, but, it which is a consortium of, of businesspeople getting together and talking about issues and, and working together and, it they, they also have a, a pitch program and help people get started, too.

Unknown

So, there's there's a lot of that going on in this, this area. It's good. You mentioned that it was a grant. Can you explain a little bit more about, like, I guess, what grants are and what kind of grants that Wake Forest offers for small businesses? Well, we haven't really done a lot of that.

Unknown

Okay. You know, now, we still have some of that money that. Oh, interesting like that. And in fact, I was thinking about that the other day, and I thought, I need this look into that a little bit more. And see, you know, exactly how much of that we still have. And because, oh, we used it when I, when I first became the mayor, we, partnered with the chamber for Economic Development.

Unknown

We actually paid part of the salary of the president of the chamber. And that president then would, would work on economic development for the town, a number of years ago. I don't remember how many, but a bunch of years ago, we hired Jason Cannon to be the economic development director, and he actually formed, at at our.

Unknown

When we said he could, of course, formed the Business and Industry Partnership. Okay. And, and so, he, he's the president of that, and there's a, like, a board of directors that works with him on that. But, so he's, he's he's more into the, you know, I, I stepped away when, when the chamber president was doing that.

Unknown

I don't remember the last chamber president that we had that when we had, when we were paying them some money for the economic development. Marla, acreage was the woman that I don't know if you remember her or not, but, she and I would go out and visit businesses. I we would we would visit 3 or 4 businesses a month, you know, just say, hey, we're here.

Unknown

If you need anything, let us know. That kind of thing. When Jason came, that's that one. His way of doing things. So, you know, we we didn't. I didn't do that anymore. So he you know, he he does the economic development. And I really don't get involved in all the stuff that he's doing as much unless he asked me to.

Unknown

So, yeah. What about, you mentioned an event that, you know, the youth get, set up a stand and be entrepreneurs and, have their own little businesses. But, the events in Wake Forest or something that attracted my wife and I to this area. You want to talk about a few of the events? Well, the downtown, the Wake Forest downtown has several events that they do.

Unknown

They do, they, I was looking at all these seven, they did the forest fest. They do the, Oh, gosh. The meet in the street maintenance street is a chamber event. Oh, okay. Yeah, the chamber does that. That's a chamber event. Maybe, that they do the walking tours. The haunted tour. Spirits of Wake Forest.

Unknown

Oh, that, the they do the lighting of Wake Forest at Christmas when we light the Christmas tree. Oh, we we have a big Christmas tree in the plaza at Town hall, but they're in charge of that. Okay, so they they, it's their event. Oh, I remember when we used to light a tree in the parking lot, the depot parking lot downtown, and, the tree was so little that you had to be standing really close to it to even see it when it live.

Unknown

So it's it's really different now. Yeah. This big tree, that, that they do that and, I can't remember the, the two other events that they do, but they're in charge of who does the Friday night on white. That's that. That's the town neighborhood. Now, the, the Wake Forest downtown, staff has a lot to do with that, but, but Wake Forest downtown, the organization does not do Friday night white.

Unknown

Okay. Yeah. And once it is along that same topic, what does it mean when, people say that, Wake Forest bought Main Street from Dot? Oh, well, main, White Street or White Street? I'm sorry. Yeah. White Street was I dot road. But, every time we did anything downtown, we would have to get permission from them to use the street.

Unknown

And so we just finally decided it would be easier for us to take over the maintenance of that street if we owned it. Yeah, instead of having. And then we wouldn't have to ask for their permission. So we didn't buy it from them. They just gave it to us. They they gave. They're happy to give you a street, if you'll take.

Unknown

Maintain it. Sure. So. So that's why we didn't buy. But they gave they they turned it the ownership of it over to us. And, but that happens, you know, if, if there's a street that that you that you want to own, you go to them and, and usually they're perfectly willing to turn it over to you. Yeah.

Unknown

Because then they don't have to maintain it anymore. Whenever we first moved here, I guess I was, oh, about ten years ago, we lived here too long, but the events were rather small. Still, I. You didn't spend much time waiting in line and. Right. You know, it was pretty easy to move around, but now it's hard to go to the event sometimes.

Unknown

Some of the events, yes it is. What are some of the struggles that the towns had with that and, how it affects some of the businesses and. Well, we have to be careful. That is one of the things that we, that we have to be careful about is not not having too many events downtown because, although I will say this Friday night made a big difference for the businesses downtown.

Unknown

It really, it it brought people in who didn't even know we had it downtown, you know. Yeah. And, and, and so they came for that and then, and then they saw the stores and, and I know, BJ's they told me that after the first Friday night and why they didn't sell merch that night, that they had people coming in all weekend buying things because they saw that they had them and they they didn't even know they were there until they came to Friday night.

Unknown

What? So I think that events can have a big, influence on the businesses downtown. But you have to make sure that you don't have so many that it it can disrupt them to ensure, you know, so so we we try to limit that as much as we can. And so we, we, revamped and street a few years ago, the street that goes from Main Street, from White Street to the town hall, that street.

Unknown

And we named that Festival Street, okay. Because we thought we can have events on that street. Right? You know, and, and then leave White Street open. So, so you do have to have that, balance of bringing people in or not bringing on, man. Yeah. And and it's been, it's been fantastic. I can't, I can't believe how many people come to Friday night.

Unknown

All right. I've got one huge, but and I understand they had a big, big bunch of people at Boo Bash this past Saturday. Yeah. Where the kids came downtown and and got their their treats for Halloween. Okay. And then, part of preparing for this interview I got, I went and talked to some of the small businesses and down there for a while, and, I guess the general consensus is that the way the town's been handling the events has been good and constantly improving.

Unknown

So that was good. Good feedback to hear. I know the only issue that they didn't mention was with, you know, since everything's moved over to Owen Street, even when they're having events there on the weekends, the parking gets taken out on on White Street and that's not being monitored. But outside of that, everybody's theme generally happy about about the events and the effects from well, and you know, we we do have a parking deck planned.

Unknown

So with we hope to get that done. And is that still on the plans. Oh yes. Oh yes. We it's been a little bit delayed because of interest rates going so high that the gentleman who was going to develop that corner lot for and, and do the parking lot for parking deck for us, has held off a little bit, but that's getting ramped back up now.

Unknown

So we hope it'll come along and we're going to need that parking if we, if, when the train comes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if a lot of people know about that either that they just moved that house. I think that's where the train station is going to be going is from what I hear, what are the plans with the train?

Unknown

Unknown

So, we're we're hoping, but that's going to be a great thing for the town, for Wake Forest, because when the when the they're working on the tracks from, the infrastructure from Raleigh to Wake Forest and, and so there's still a lot to be done. But when that, when all that infrastructure is done, the train that now goes the Piedmont train, which goes from Raleigh to Charlotte, will come to Wake Forest.

Unknown

So it'll go from Wake Forest to Charlotte. It'll be nice. Yeah. And so that, that will, you know, you can ride the train to, to Raleigh if you want to, but you can also ride it to Greensboro or. Yeah. Any of those towns in between. Sure. Yeah. I know my wife and kids like to do that.

Unknown

If they have a weekend free, they'll hop on the train and ride it out to Charlotte or Greensboro. Yeah, the small towns in between. Yeah. Yeah, I think that'll be really good for the town. Oh, I think it will be too. Yeah, yeah, but I think we're going to have to have some, some parking at that end of the town.

Unknown

There's going to be some growing pains for sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I guess, one of the things that has been kind of an issue, you know, in the perspective of business owners trying to find space in downtown. And I know some of the solutions are the different co-working spaces. We've had a small one down there for a number of years, and then they just did that, revitalization of that old warehouse building and put in the loading docks, which you already mentioned, which is a really nice space.

Unknown

And, they do or they do a lot there. They host a lot of different events and they're really involved with the chamber. And so I've been there a number of times. But the downtown area with some of the older buildings, it's been an issue where there's a lot of space not being utilized down there and not being properly cared for, maintained.

Unknown

And that's been, a consistent, I guess, gripe that I've heard the whole time I've been here. I know we just interviewed the, Jennifer Wood from the burger shop, and she was talking about her building the the Wilkinson Building, I believe, been, some renovations done that, that needed to be done there for quite a while.

Unknown

Are there any changes in, like, kind of regulations or what's the town doing to try and, help that situation? Well, unfortunately, there's only so much we can do, right? We don't own the buildings. Sure. And the only thing that we can really regulate is making sure that they are safe. The part that's being used is safe, and that the outside of it is safe, you know, is not going to, bricks are not going to fall off and hit somebody or something like that.

Unknown

Oh. We, we have, we have an issue with owners of businesses, of buildings. Sure. Not wanting to work with tenants who want to come. And, that's been an issue for a number of years. Yeah. And, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what I can do about that. Right? Yeah. I haven't figured out what I can do about that at this point.

Unknown

You know, and, I had someone recently who said, well, look at what Franklinton is doing. You know, they're doing all this wonderful stuff up there. Why don't you do that? Well, we can't do that. Yeah. You know, we don't own the buildings, so, unfortunately, that that's all. That's all I know to say, I don't know.

Unknown

Sure, I will help in any way that we can. Unfortunately.

Unknown

The owners of the buildings are not really willing to work with people as much as they should in order to keep their business buildings going. Okay. And, that that's that's been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.

Unknown

I've heard that, yeah. And that's one thing that it's like there's that blurred line where you got people saying all the town needs to make people do stuff, but then you have private ownership and, you know, overstepping bounds into the property and all that stuff. And that's exactly that's a hard line to walk. Yeah. And and it's, you know, it's hard for, property owners.

Unknown

You're not always willing to work with, the people who want to, to rent the building. And explain to them what process they need to go through it to, to get the building brought up to code or whatever needs to be done. And then they just don't work with them that well, you know, and they a lot of times the building owner will want the.

Unknown

The tenant to put a lot of money into their building. Right. And it which is really unfair, you know. So so it it is an issue that we have in downtown Wake Forest. And in case people don't know what we're talking about, it's, you know, a lot of the buildings on White Street in the main downtown area are older buildings, and they're privately owned, and there's some buildings that have been vacant for years, like the one on the corner there, and then the upstairs of a lot of the buildings.

Unknown

There's a lot of unused square footage. Absolutely. There's infrastructure issues. There's I know there's been some water and sewer issues, like different things like that, from business to business. All the businesses, they're almost all the businesses there are renting space from private owners. So specifically, that's what we're talking about. Yeah. And I actually live downtown. I don't know if you were aware of that or not.

Unknown

My sister and I lived, above the frame shop, right downtown where there's an apartment there. And, and it was right. It was a great apartment. I mean, we had 12ft ceilings and great big windows, and it was it was really neat. Yeah, there's a few spaces. Are fixed up nice. And there's one, popular Airbnb downtown upstairs above.

Unknown

I forget what what shop it's above specifically, but I know quite a few people that have stayed there. Yeah. The, area above the brewery is super nice. We had an opportunity to rent that space a while ago, but it didn't suit our needs. Yeah, so there is, there's a few nice spaces, but a lot of unused, unused space.

Unknown

Absolutely. Downtown. It's, real estate seems to come up and go off the market before anybody even has a chance. Oh, yeah. You know, that's one of the things about a small town and a lot of family owned properties and connections. And throughout the years that people get opportunities to buy stuff, before other people can even, you know, throw their hat in the ring.

Unknown

I know that's happened to me a couple times with a couple of properties downtown that I was interested in. Yeah. Along the same lines, I guess, the I've heard from a couple people that some of the businesses, on the side of town where, like holding oil and, super deal, which have both been downtown for quite a while, that they're going to have to, fix up the outside of their building or there's going to be some changes as that street continues to grow.

Unknown

Is that rumors, or is that I think that's rumors. I, I can't imagine that, I would be very opposed to to that. I mean, you know, they've been there, if we want to gentrify that area, that's, you know, that's one thing, but, I don't see I know, okay. I would not be, in favor of, making them make any changes.

Unknown

I mean, you know, that's not fair. And that's the thing, again, with a smaller town, you get the the rumor mill going and exact. It's hard to know what. Yeah. There may be some issues when the train comes through. Okay. So they may have, you know that because the train, there will be some changes, on the train tracks, they're going to be widening.

Unknown

There will be a little, little bit of widening there. And, and there's a couple places where they are straightening the track, you know, there's a a little bit of a curve and they're having to straighten it because eventually they want the high speed rail that's coming from DC down, you know, kind of thing. So they're trying to plan for that.

Unknown

They're planning ahead for that. So they'll they'll want to straighten it a little bit. Okay. So there there will be some issues with those people along there. But it's not because we want them to look better. Right, right. I guess, you've talked about a few different businesses today. Is there is there one local small business that you've seen do great things downtown that you like to shout out there?

Unknown

Well, I think we've had 2 or 3 that have really, really, stepped up and done some extra stuff. I think, being hardware as well, that has done that. They've, expanded their, Little, little hometown hardware stores are not that great anymore. You know, you don't see that many of those anymore. And, I think I'm, I'm really proud that we have one in downtown that has been so successful.

Unknown

And bringing in the grills and those those kinds of things. And I think that they have, really brought a lot of business downtown because of, of what they've done. So I think they've done a great job. I think that, or it's and Joe Kim Ray is coming on a couple of weeks. Yeah. Excited about talking to them.

Unknown

Yeah. And, and, I'm, I'm excited about broad sites and Bruce and how they fixed up that building. Yeah. I mean, they, that that's a historic building, and they, you know, they did all the things that they needed to do to restore it as much as possible to the the way it was, the, the bones of it, which ones there is and broadsides.

Unknown

And Bruce, do you know where that is? I don't it's the only one that they have. Is Norse. Norse brewery. No. It's our main, y street. Okay. Browser. It's the first, you know, where the fidelity bank is? Yeah. And then the first building right beside that, they turned it into a brew shop, bar and brew shop, you know, and, but they restored the, the ceiling that had the old metal ceiling and.

Unknown

Yeah, you know, I mean, they, they put a lot of time and money into that building. Get restoring it. Right. So, you know, you need to go in and look. Yeah. I'm gonna go check that one. Yeah. It's. They really. And they actually, they actually won an award from the, the, Capital Area Preservation, society for, for their work on that.

Unknown

This year. And so it's, it's they've, they've done a great job. And then, of course, I think White Street Brewing really helped revitalize our time. Yeah, yeah. They were the first brewing company in Wake Forest. Yeah, that they did a great job. And, and everybody said, you know, they're not serving any food. But it didn't matter.

Unknown

Yeah. And and even with all the other brewing companies that have opened since then, they're still they're still doing very well. And so, I give them a lot of credit for and, and they were very involved with the Friday night and why, you know, they've been our major sponsor every time. And, they were very involved in planning that, starting it, you know, as well.

Unknown

So and then there's some other, you know, a little like, southern, and so those, you know, they're there quite a few that have, have really done some good, good things. Yeah. Yeah, I know and I don't want to leave anybody out. I know there's a lot of great. I'm wondering why what was great. And they fixed up that fix on the rooftop.

Unknown

I mean that added a whole new thing to the downtown. Yeah. You know, so, the, the businesses that we've had have really done. Well, Norse Brewing has, has been a great success. They've done a great job. Franny's bottle shop down in North and, I'm excited about the food hall if it ever gets old. I know that kind of stalled out there.

Unknown

Yeah, but. And it it will, it will, it will. So. And, black and white coffee has, has, has done well too. And they're, they're going to move to the food hall when, when the food hall opens and, so, but because we're, we have to use their space for the parking deck.

Unknown

Unknown

Oh, okay. The gentleman who was helping us move, we were unloading the truck and moving into the apartment and, and everybody said, well, it's time for lunch. And he said, well, I'll go down to shower Shorty's and get us some hot dogs. So he brought a bunch of hot dogs back from short is,

Unknown

You touched on a couple places fixing them up in the brewery. We're running an award. Know every town gets the guy to dictate how they handle the older buildings and stuff. How strict is Wake Forest on, preserving the historic buildings? Well, our downtown, the the two two block areas are mainly, the, faux white street is and is a historic district.

Unknown

And so when it is a historic district, you have to you have to maintain that it's mostly the outside, that you have to maintain that kind of thing. So, you know, you have to put in the right windows and all that when, when you fix it up. So there is, there is quite a bit of requirements, for the historic part.

Unknown

And, but you can also, access some historic, district funds for that from the national, from the federal Historic because it's a, it's a national historic. Okay. So that's controlled national. Yeah. Okay. But you can access some funds for for that because of it. And then what about South Main Street? I know that's mostly residential.

Unknown

That's South Main where all the historic. All right. You're right. Is that a historic district as well? Well, the, a little bit of south, mainly north. I'm at North Main even even know there's a little bit of South Main, but mainly North Main. Yes. Those are historic homes too. And you have to you have to, we have a historic district commission or a historic commission.

Unknown

So, a historic preservation commission is what it's called. Yeah, but and they, they're the ones who actually, monitor that. Okay. So you have to, go before them and tell them what you want to do, and then they have to approve it or not, you know, based on the regulations. Yeah, I know they've done a good job even with, I don't know if they control it or not, but even the new homes that have been built.

Unknown

Yeah. On North Main. Yeah. Still blend in with. Yeah. That's there. And they get a job with that. They, they, they monitor that out. So. Okay. Yeah. The whole area has to maintain that. Yeah. That look like it. Well, what's the most underutilized resource you think in the area for entrepreneurs?

Unknown

Oh gosh, I don't know. I think probably just talking with, the town and, Jennifer Herbert is a great resource for, for entrepreneurs. They want to start a business. She, she knows all the people they need to talk to. But one of the things that, if if someone is if starting a business, one of the, one of the things I recommend first thing you do is go to inspections and ask them to come and look at your space and tell you what you're going to have to do.

Unknown

Because a lot of times people will just move in and then the inspector comes in and they said, you didn't do this and that. And there's, you know, whatever. And it's a whole lot harder to do it then. And it, it what would have been before. I know that was one of the things when my sister and I started our business, I don't know why we were so smart to do this.

Unknown

Maybe somebody told us, I don't remember exactly, but but we had we asked the inspection department to come in and look at the building and tell us, you know what? What are we going to have to do to open a restaurant here? You know, and, and it was they were so helpful. You know, I remember that one issue that we had was the the restrooms, the restrooms were, had had to be made Ada compliant.

Unknown

And normally you have to do, I don't remember the details, but they said, well, you have to have, you know, access so that someone in a wheelchair can get in there. And these were small bathrooms in there. And but what he did was he said, well, you know, technically you have to do this, but because of the space, we can work with you and and you can do something else.

Unknown

So that was a lot less expensive, you know, and we didn't have to expand the space. And, you know, if we hadn't, if we hadn't asked him to come in to start with and we'd opened, then he had to close this day. Yeah. You know, but just they, they're, they can be so helpful and, and they will, will work with you to make it as easy for you as possible.

Unknown

Yeah. Well, I think that's a great point. A lot of people don't realize that they see. All right, there's a business in the space now that business is gone, I should be able to just take this and put it in there. What's the problem? Yeah, there's so many things. Yeah, but your business may be different, but also the rules may have changed.

Unknown

You may have the same business, but the rules have changed. So when a new business comes in, it has to be changed. And so, you know, you you need to have them check you out. Yeah. Before you do anything. Now that's a great point. And the inspectors will do that because like especially with the older buildings, there's certain things as long as you're not making major changes, you can get away with not bringing everything to compliance.

Unknown

But as soon as you start making certain changes, everything has to be brought up to compliance and everything has to meet fire code. So there's some there's some gray area that they can help walk you through. Exactly. I know I dealt with that whenever I was, restoring Keith's store in Lake Forest. It was, you know, we knew we could do certain things without having to really invest a lot of time and effort, money into it.

Unknown

Right? Make everything compliant, you know, something as simple as, like the step where, like a six inch step up into the building and there was no, ramp access, but because it was a historic building or an old building and we weren't making, major changes or major renovations, the town was going to. Or the county. Right.

Unknown

Get away with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that's a great point. Yeah. There's so many things that you don't think, you know, tell people. And that's. That was a good one. I like that. Where should. Oh, what's one thing that you're excited about for downtown in the next 12 months? Is there anything big going on? Well, I hope sometime in the next 12 months that the food court will open.

Unknown

Yeah, because I think that will really make a difference. And, I don't know of anything else that's, That's happening downtown. You know, as far as new, new stuff coming on, also, well, I, I do say this too. I also think that in the next 12 months or so, we'll see some movement on the, the corner property that, that the town bought, you know, with, where the parking decks can be built, that.

Unknown

Okay, that whole thing I think is going to start happening because we, we have now, we bought another little piece of property, that, that empty space where, Carlton Parks's car park up the town bought that property also just recently. And so, so this building that the guy who's building the building out in the corner, it's going to go all the way around.

Unknown

Okay. And so, they are starting to work on the design of that now. So, I hope some of that'll start happening in the next year. Because I think that's going to be, a big, a big boost to downtown home and that we know when that happens because he's going to do all retail on the bottom and have housing on top.

Unknown

Right. And, and I'm, I'm excited about all the housing that's happening in downtown because that really brings people, you know, to downtown and those kind of spaces like you're talking about where it's, you know, retail and housing mix. There's, really what a lot of towns seem to be pushing for. Absolutely. That mixed use. Really allows you to get the most out of the property, the limited property that we do have.

Unknown

Exactly. If somebody wanted to see more specifics on, like, where you're talking about or what projects you're talking about, is there an easy way to do that? No. Not yet. Okay. You know, I don't even know if I don't think it's on the website. We we did have sort of a, a picture of and it may be on the website, but I'm really not sure if it is or not, but, it will be soon, but, I'm not sure it's there now.

Unknown

Yeah. You know, one topic of conversation that started when, like, Wegmans came in to the area and, now there's, big box store coming in, I believe I, Costco and some other stuff, coming into town. And some of the downtown businesses are worried about business being drawn away from downtown. And I know a lot of the steps that you're talking about taking are going to help, you know, prevent that from happening or keeping that.

Unknown

Is that a do you have any concern over that about being pulled out? I really don't I don't think that, that, you know, I think back when I was a commissioner, when I was a commissioner, was when Walmart came here, and, I voted against.

Unknown

Because, you know, at that time, there was all this controversy about Walmart taking all the business from, from downtown. And, and, you know, we were at that stage, you know, downtown was not growing, all right. Was just starting to grow. And I certainly didn't want, and I don't I don't think that Walmart hurt. Like, what? Downtown, you know, when it came.

Unknown

But. And I don't, I think, I think our downtown is a unique and, and I think that we will continue to,

Unknown

The town is committed to making sure that our downtown stays. And so, you know, we're going to continue to have those events and those things that bring people downtown. Yeah. And, I think things have changed in the world these days. I think that that when those big, Retail things started like Walmart and Costco and.

Unknown

Sure, Sam's Club and those I think I think when they first started, it did draw people from from the downtowns. But I don't think that that actually happens now. As much, as specially in an area like this where.

Unknown

In an urban area. Yeah. You know, maybe in a more rural area, I would bet in an urban league with the growth that we had in population and everything else. I'm not concerned about that. And, and everybody wants to get it. I believe in that. We're winning. I don't want us to grow anymore. I want to Costco.

Unknown

Yeah, I think I think every time they've cleared an area off us. One that's the rumors. 30 there's a Costco one there. There's a Costco one. Another is not. But now they finally are. Yep. Yeah. Are there any, metrics or any things that you watch specifically that tells you about the, the health of downtown as a whole, like the economy?

Unknown

Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't have any specific statistics that I keep track of, but, but I, I, I watch what's happening downtown and, a lot of times when I'm going somewhere, I will just, particularly like, on weekends or in the evenings, like, I'll just drive downtown just to see how many people I see walking, you know, and that kind of thing.

Unknown

So I really do pay attention to to what's happening. And the stores that are opening and, and, and not only just downtown but, in other areas of town too, but, but specifically downtown, because I think when you have a, it's, it's kind of interesting to me because all these other towns, like Holly Springs, for example, Morrisville, they're trying to.

Unknown

And even Carrie, you know, they're trying to build downtowns because I don't have one. Right? You know, so it's it's nice that we have our historic downtown. So and it really is the gathering place for the community. And, so I think our events have made that even more true. So, it's been really important to do that.

Unknown

So I do watch that to make sure that things are are staying that way. Yeah. I mean, that's starting to be a common theme already with business owners that we interview that are in downtown or affiliated with downtown. It was the downtown that brought them into the area and solidified that. Yes, is where I'm supposed to be exactly.

Unknown

You know, absolutely. For me, it was the the quaint downtown and the hardware store. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But then for my wife, it was the convenience of everything else being around her. It's a it's a good balance. I believe. All right. Well, I think we've covered most everything. Is there anything that I'm forgetting or anything else that you want to talk about?

Unknown

I don't think so. I just, I think White Forest. Is this the great little town? Yeah. I still think of it as a little town. I just I'm really proud of the way, the way it has grown and how we've how we've, solidified the the downtown, the historic part. Remembering our history, I think, is very important as we go into the future.

Unknown

You know, it it connecting both is is what makes this really a unique little town. We're excited about being able to spotlight some of these businesses. Yeah, I think this is great. I was really excited when I saw this, and I. I haven't had time yet to have a watch. Part of a couple of your podcast.

Unknown

And so, I'm going to watch all of them because I'm excited about what you're doing here. I think this is, it's great how you're highlighting this. What's going on here? And, I enjoy it. And every, every episode so far has been very, very different. And that's what makes it fun, because everybody's experience is different. Right?

Unknown

Right, right. Yeah. Well, the way we like to end every podcast here is, by definition and, the reason we do this is because once I figure it out, my own definition, it changed how I run my business and how we do our family life and everything else and finding that balance. And it's, how do you define success?

Unknown

Oh.

Unknown

How do I define success? Well, I think, For me, being successful means appreciating everybody who comes into my life. And, being willing to work with everybody. And,

Unknown

You know, I, I grew up my parents,

Unknown

Were very involved in their community and very loving and kind and, I just, I feel like if I, if I can be friends, I have friends.

Unknown

Express my appreciation and love for others in lots of different ways that my life has been successful. Awesome. I can't think of a better way. And than that, it's an honor. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. Thank you. This is, it's been wonderful. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Great.